Discussion:
[Docutils-users] 2015: reStructuredText implementations in other programming languages?
Tony Narlock
2015-04-22 09:35:06 UTC
Permalink
Greetings docutils users,

Where do things stand with reStructuredText in other programming
languages? Does anyone know any attempts? As it stands, I've seen a couple
of non-python applications using reST - but they were just wrapping
docutils.
TP
2015-04-22 11:51:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Narlock
Greetings docutils users,
Where do things stand with reStructuredText in other programming languages?
Does anyone know any attempts? As it stands, I've seen a couple of
non-python applications using reST - but they were just wrapping docutils.
Jetbrains has a java implementation [1] used in their Python PyCharm
product [2]. Not sure how complete it is and there isn't much activity
on it.

PyCharm page says "Epydoc and reStructuredText markup highlighting and
code completion for tags and tag parameters. Docstrings and the code
matching verification, and autoupdate on refactoring."

[1] https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community/tree/master/python/rest/src/com/jetbrains/rest

[2] https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/features/

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Roberto Alsina
2015-04-22 13:04:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by TP
Post by Tony Narlock
Greetings docutils users,
Where do things stand with reStructuredText in other programming languages?
Does anyone know any attempts? As it stands, I've seen a couple of
non-python applications using reST - but they were just wrapping docutils.
Jetbrains has a java implementation [1] used in their Python PyCharm
product [2]. Not sure how complete it is and there isn't much activity
on it.
PyCharm page says "Epydoc and reStructuredText markup highlighting and
code completion for tags and tag parameters. Docstrings and the code
matching verification, and autoupdate on refactoring."
[1] https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community/tree/master/python/rest/src/com/jetbrains/rest
[2] https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/features/
Pandoc supports a subset of ReST and is written in Haskell IIRC
Post by TP
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Guenter Milde
2015-04-22 11:59:41 UTC
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Post by Tony Narlock
Greetings docutils users,
Where do things stand with reStructuredText in other programming
languages? Does anyone know any attempts? As it stands, I've seen a couple
of non-python applications using reST - but they were just wrapping
docutils.
There is prest (perl reStructuredText) in the sandbox.

I don't know how the Leo outline/editer
http://leoeditor.com/tutorial-rst3.html
implements its rST support.

Günter


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Please use "R
Terry Brown
2015-04-22 12:44:09 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 22 Apr 2015 11:59:41 +0000 (UTC)
Post by Guenter Milde
Post by Tony Narlock
Greetings docutils users,
Where do things stand with reStructuredText in other programming
languages? Does anyone know any attempts? As it stands, I've seen
a couple of non-python applications using reST - but they were just
wrapping docutils.
There is prest (perl reStructuredText) in the sandbox.
I don't know how the Leo outline/editer
http://leoeditor.com/tutorial-rst3.html
implements its rST support.
Leo is in Python and uses docutils.

Cheers -Terry
Post by Guenter Milde
Günter
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TP
2015-04-22 12:05:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Narlock
Greetings docutils users,
Where do things stand with reStructuredText in other programming languages?
Does anyone know any attempts? As it stands, I've seen a couple of
non-python applications using reST - but they were just wrapping docutils.
You don't bother to mention it for some reason, but the docutils
"Emacs Support for reStructuredText" [1] uses elisp to understand
quite a bit about reStructured text documents.

[1] http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/user/emacs.html

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Skip Montanaro
2015-04-22 13:20:29 UTC
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Hasn't Markdown kind of taken over the marked-up-text world these days? Or
is that just how it appears since that's what Github supports?

Skip
Roberto Alsina
2015-04-22 13:24:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Skip Montanaro
Hasn't Markdown kind of taken over the marked-up-text world these
days? Or is that just how it appears since that's what Github supports?
GitHub also supports rst. Just use foo.rst as a filename:

https://github.com/getnikola/nikola/blob/master/README.rst

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Peter Funk
2015-04-23 08:01:32 UTC
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Post by Roberto Alsina
Post by Skip Montanaro
Hasn't Markdown kind of taken over the marked-up-text world these
days? Or is that just how it appears since that's what Github supports?
https://github.com/getnikola/nikola/blob/master/README.rst
IMHO comparing the ugliness auf MarkDown with the beauty of ReST this
seems to be unfortunately something which should be made more public
amongst Github users.

BTW: Who can contribute reports about her/his experiences
with pandoc ( https://github.com/jgm/pandoc ) to this discussion?
I've experimented in a project with the following makefile rule but
later decided to manually edit the resulting .rst files a lot.

%.rst: %.md
pandoc $< -f markdown -t rst -o $@

To the OP question: Pandoc seems to contain a partly finished
ReST implementation in the programming language Haskell. From the
description of the Pandoc project I guess, that Davids original
architecture of docutils might have inspired the author of Pandoc.

Regards, Peter Funk
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Pl
Matěj Cepl
2015-06-26 12:25:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Funk
BTW: Who can contribute reports about her/his experiences
with pandoc ( https://github.com/jgm/pandoc ) to this discussion?
I've experimented in a project with the following makefile rule but
later decided to manually edit the resulting .rst files a lot.
https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/issues/2231#issuecomment-111875559

rST processor which cannot process .. image: elements is kind of
difficult to use. And now, I cannot upgrade pandoc (more recent
one doesn't build on my system, and I don't want to use
unpackaged programs anyway).

However, I have decided to make The Right Thing™ and wrote my
hexo renderer using rst2html
(https://gitlab.com/mcepl/hexo-renderer-restructuredtext) except
now I have a different problem (issue #1 in that repository).
rst2html generates only complete HTML documents and relies on
tons of CSS stylesheets.

Would it be possible to somehow persuade rst2html to produce
just as plain HTML as possible without dependency on too much of
CSS?

I guess proper template (and --template parameter) could cover
multitude of sins. Did anybody prepare such a template?

Best,

Matěj
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Roberto Alsina
2015-06-26 12:34:16 UTC
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Post by Matěj Cepl
Post by Peter Funk
BTW: Who can contribute reports about her/his experiences
with pandoc ( https://github.com/jgm/pandoc ) to this discussion?
I've experimented in a project with the following makefile rule but
later decided to manually edit the resulting .rst files a lot.
https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/issues/2231#issuecomment-111875559
rST processor which cannot process .. image: elements is kind of
difficult to use. And now, I cannot upgrade pandoc (more recent
one doesn't build on my system, and I don't want to use
unpackaged programs anyway).
However, I have decided to make The Right Thing™ and wrote my
hexo renderer using rst2html
(https://gitlab.com/mcepl/hexo-renderer-restructuredtext) except
now I have a different problem (issue #1 in that repository).
rst2html generates only complete HTML documents and relies on
tons of CSS stylesheets.
Would it be possible to somehow persuade rst2html to produce
just as plain HTML as possible without dependency on too much of
CSS?
In Nikola I just extract the body element using lxml and put it in the
template where I want it.

The CSS ...

we have a rst.css which is extracted from docutils and a code.css
generated by pygments.

The rst.css ... it's very old fashioned, with the 3-d sidebars and such,
so we have an outstanding improvement request to redo via LESS so it can
be easier to tweak, but haven't got around to hacking on it yet.


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Pleas
Marcelo Huerta
2015-06-26 13:43:02 UTC
Permalink
Roberto Alsina decía, en el mensaje "Re: [Docutils-users] rst2html for partial
HTML generation [Was: Re: 2015: reStructuredText implementations in other
Post by Roberto Alsina
In Nikola I just extract the body element using lxml and put it in the
template where I want it.
Maybe I'm being silly, but wasn't it possible to simply call publish_parts and
use the returned parts['html_body'], as indicated in
http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/api/publisher.html#publish-parts-details
? Tell me if I'm missing something.
--
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Roberto Alsina
2015-06-26 13:58:11 UTC
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Post by Marcelo Huerta
Roberto Alsina decía, en el mensaje "Re: [Docutils-users] rst2html for partial
HTML generation [Was: Re: 2015: reStructuredText implementations in other
Post by Roberto Alsina
In Nikola I just extract the body element using lxml and put it in the
template where I want it.
Maybe I'm being silly, but wasn't it possible to simply call publish_parts and
use the returned parts['html_body'], as indicated in
http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/api/publisher.html#publish-parts-details
? Tell me if I'm missing something.
No, that was perfectly fine. We do extract body because we support a
bunch of "compilers" and not all of them play as nice.

Actual code for rst is like this:

return pub.writer.parts['docinfo'] + pub.writer.parts['fragment']

I don't quite recall the specifics of how it ended up like that ;-)
Matěj Cepl
2015-06-26 14:09:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roberto Alsina
No, that was perfectly fine. We do extract body because we support a
bunch of "compilers" and not all of them play as nice.
return pub.writer.parts['docinfo'] + pub.writer.parts['fragment']
I don't quite recall the specifics of how it ended up like that ;-)
Could somebody be able to write a simple example of such script?
(/me gets a bit lost while diving into
/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/docutils/)

Thanks,

Matěj
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Roberto Alsina
2015-06-26 14:25:02 UTC
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Post by Matěj Cepl
Post by Roberto Alsina
No, that was perfectly fine. We do extract body because we support a
bunch of "compilers" and not all of them play as nice.
return pub.writer.parts['docinfo'] + pub.writer.parts['fragment']
I don't quite recall the specifics of how it ended up like that ;-)
Could somebody be able to write a simple example of such script?
(/me gets a bit lost while diving into
/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/docutils/)
Maybe something like

https://github.com/getnikola/nikola/blob/master/nikola/plugins/compile/rest/__init__.py#L233
Matěj Cepl
2015-06-26 15:00:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roberto Alsina
Maybe something like
https://github.com/getnikola/nikola/blob/master/nikola/plugins/compile/rest/__init__.py#L233
Thanks, I'll take a look.

Matěj
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<"}}}><


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Guenter Milde
2015-06-26 15:10:02 UTC
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Ahoj Matěj,
Post by Matěj Cepl
However, I have decided to make The Right Thing™ and wrote my
hexo renderer using rst2html
(https://gitlab.com/mcepl/hexo-renderer-restructuredtext) except
now I have a different problem (issue #1 in that repository).
rst2html generates only complete HTML documents and relies on
tons of CSS stylesheets.
To get parts of the HTML document, the "publish_parts()" convenience
function can be used. It is described in
http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/api/publisher.html#publisher-convenience-functions
with example code in
http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docutils/examples.py
Post by Matěj Cepl
Would it be possible to somehow persuade rst2html to produce
just as plain HTML as possible without dependency on too much of
CSS?
This depends on what you intend:

* the default html4css2 writer uses one stylesheet¹, default.css
(which is very long)

* the new html_base writer (!! to be renamed !!)² in the SVN repository
uses two stylesheets¹:

* minimal.css required basic rules
* plain.css rules for easier reading and pleasant layout

This writer also gets rid of IE 6 compatibility hacks to achieve a cleaner
HTML output.

* the html4trans__ writer in the sandbox does not depend on CSS
It uses hard-coded HTML-styling (bad!) instead for rST elements that
have no real equivalent in HTML.

__ http://docutils.sourceforge.net/sandbox/html4trans/

¹ + ``math.css``, if you have maths in the document and the "math-output"
setting is html

² cf. http://repo.or.cz/w/docutils.git/blob_plain/HEAD:/docutils/docs/user/html.txt


Günter


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Pleas

Kevin Horn
2015-04-22 17:26:27 UTC
Permalink
@Skip

IMO, RestructuredText and Markdown fill different niches. Markdown really
targets HTML output and is quite limited when talking about other output
formats. This is mainly because it only supports a limited group of
document elements. If you need something outside this set of elements, the
Markdown way of handling this is to insert raw html. This really makes
markdown only suitable for (relatively) simple documents or documents that
will be turned into HTML.

RestructuredText tries much harder to support whatever type of document
element you happen to need, and if one isn't supported, it has built in
extension mechanisms (custom directives/roles) which you can use. This
allows it to be much more useful if you want to support non-HTML output
formats.

There's room for both in the ecosystem, as they do different things (though
there is some overlap).

As far as Markdown taking over, I would say that both have experienced
quite a bit of growth in the last few years, Markdown mostly being used for
simple documents, and HTML fragments (thinking comments here), and
RestructuredText getting a lot of use and exposure via Sphinx (which is
used for lots of projects even outside the Python community).
Post by Skip Montanaro
Hasn't Markdown kind of taken over the marked-up-text world these days? Or
is that just how it appears since that's what Github supports?
Skip
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George V. Reilly
2015-04-22 17:53:08 UTC
Permalink
StackOverflow and all the other StackExchange sites use Markdown heavily. I
think the plethora of Markdown implementations in different languages has
helped its adoption.

There's also VST, an implementation of reStructuredText in VimL, Vim's
native extension language. I used it for a year or so and gave the author
feedback, but it was never great.
https://github.com/vim-scripts/VST/blob/master/doc2/vst.txt
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Post by Kevin Horn
@Skip
IMO, RestructuredText and Markdown fill different niches. Markdown really
targets HTML output and is quite limited when talking about other output
formats. This is mainly because it only supports a limited group of
document elements. If you need something outside this set of elements, the
Markdown way of handling this is to insert raw html. This really makes
markdown only suitable for (relatively) simple documents or documents that
will be turned into HTML.
RestructuredText tries much harder to support whatever type of document
element you happen to need, and if one isn't supported, it has built in
extension mechanisms (custom directives/roles) which you can use. This
allows it to be much more useful if you want to support non-HTML output
formats.
There's room for both in the ecosystem, as they do different things
(though there is some overlap).
As far as Markdown taking over, I would say that both have experienced
quite a bit of growth in the last few years, Markdown mostly being used for
simple documents, and HTML fragments (thinking comments here), and
RestructuredText getting a lot of use and exposure via Sphinx (which is
used for lots of projects even outside the Python community).
Post by Skip Montanaro
Hasn't Markdown kind of taken over the marked-up-text world these days?
Or is that just how it appears since that's what Github supports?
Skip
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Philipp A.
2015-04-23 22:21:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Skip Montanaro
Hasn't Markdown kind of taken over the marked-up-text world these days? Or
is that just how it appears since that's what Github supports?
Skip
it certainly has taken over the *non-semantic* world.

reddit comments, readmes, forums, bug trackers.

but i real documents, rST’s flexibility is unparalleled. except for LaTeX,
which is a programming language and therefore has to be executed.

an example where rST is perfect:
http://flask.pocoo.org/docs/0.10/quickstart/#a-minimal-application

https://github.com/mitsuhiko/flask/blob/master/docs/quickstart.rst

the roles :class:, :meth:, :file:, :command:, :option:, :exc:, :attr:, 
 all
semantically define what the text is, and allow independent styling, links
to the official python docs, other project’s docs (e.g. werkzeug), and
other parts of the same docs.

the same can be applied to blocks. rST also knows citations, 

Zeth
2015-04-23 22:36:27 UTC
Permalink
Markdown is the VHS of the plain text world. RST is the Betamax,
technically superior but lower adoption.

The Tables in RST are far superior, especially since they are natively
supported by Emacs Table Mode (which comes by default in Emacs 25?
24.x? Cannot remember which exactly).

I think one of the reasons Markdown often wins out is that Markdown's
inline links are much quicker for people used to HTML or Wikis to
understand.

RST's link format is superior in that the reference style links look
nicer in the textual format of the document, but that is kinda Betamax
again, most people using a plain text format are doing small textbox
style editing rather than writing a whole document.

RST and the docutils setup are better for longer texts or documentation.
Post by Philipp A.
Post by Skip Montanaro
Hasn't Markdown kind of taken over the marked-up-text world these days? Or
is that just how it appears since that's what Github supports?
Skip
it certainly has taken over the *non-semantic* world.
reddit comments, readmes, forums, bug trackers.
but i real documents, rST’s flexibility is unparalleled. except for LaTeX,
which is a programming language and therefore has to be executed.
http://flask.pocoo.org/docs/0.10/quickstart/#a-minimal-application
https://github.com/mitsuhiko/flask/blob/master/docs/quickstart.rst
the roles :class:, :meth:, :file:, :command:, :option:, :exc:, :attr:, … all
semantically define what the text is, and allow independent styling, links
to the official python docs, other project’s docs (e.g. werkzeug), and other
parts of the same docs.
the same can be applied to blocks. rST also knows citations, …
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Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz
2015-04-22 19:53:15 UTC
Permalink
Where do things stand with reStructuredText in other programming languages? Does anyone know any attempts? As it stands, I've seen a couple of non-python applications using reST - but they were just wrapping docutils.
Lazy_rest (https://github.com/gradha/lazy_rest) implements a minimal rst spec in Nim. Since Nim compiles to C you can statically link it in most C software.
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Brecht Machiels
2015-04-27 17:45:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Narlock
Greetings docutils users,
Where do things stand with reStructuredText in other programming
languages? Does anyone know any attempts? As it stands, I've seen a couple
of non-python applications using reST - but they were just wrapping
docutils.
I think the Nim programming language has adopted rST for its documentation
[1]. They have an rST parser [2] written in Nim. I don't know how complete
this implementation is.

[1] http://nim-lang.org/docgen.html
[2] http://nim-lang.org/rstast.html

You should also look at this SO question:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2746692/restructuredtext-tool-support
It has a long list of rST tools.

Best Regards,
Brecht


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Tony Narlock
2015-04-28 11:20:33 UTC
Permalink
(While studying systems programming...)

CMake 3.0 has implemented a subset of reStructuredText + Sphinx in C++:

-
https://github.com/Kitware/CMake/blob/bb9d71b4fee2cc4abf55e0dcbadf85c6cbe0d07d/Source/cmRST.cxx
-
https://github.com/Kitware/CMake/blob/bb9d71b4fee2cc4abf55e0dcbadf85c6cbe0d07d/Source/cmRST.h
Post by Brecht Machiels
Post by Tony Narlock
Greetings docutils users,
Where do things stand with reStructuredText in other programming
languages? Does anyone know any attempts? As it stands, I've seen a couple
of non-python applications using reST - but they were just wrapping
docutils.
I think the Nim programming language has adopted rST for its documentation
[1]. They have an rST parser [2] written in Nim. I don't know how complete
this implementation is.
[1] http://nim-lang.org/docgen.html
[2] http://nim-lang.org/rstast.html
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2746692/restructuredtext-tool-support
It has a long list of rST tools.
Best Regards,
Brecht
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